September 3rd, 2014 | hellofearless

How Ash used guts, her middle finger, and the internet to build a million dollar business

Ash Ambirge

Founder, House of Moxie, Inc. and The Middle Finger Project

In this week’s #FearlessFounder interview, I am so, SO excited to talk to Ash Ambirge, the brains (and beauty) of the House of Moxie, Inc. and The Middle Finger Project. I have been in love with Ash for a few years now, and everything about her just screams “screw the status quo” (I mean seriously, it’s called The Middle Finger Project. How can you NOT adore it?) Ash is brilliant, sassy, and lives the life that most of us dream of having.

There are so many ways in which Ash literally embodies everything that HF stands for:

  • How she said ‘goodbye’ to the corporate world in the parking lot of Kmart and booked a plane ticket for South America 48 hours later.
  • How she gave herself permission to write about what she truly wanted to say to the world, and the world responded to her honesty (and kick-ass attitude)
  • How figuring out her “why” helped her make all the pieces of her empire fall into place and identify what she truly wanted to provide to the world.

What I love most is that Ash has not always had it easy, but it’s her perspective, passion, and perseverance for “life hacking” that has made her so successful. Watch this interview to see how this world-traveling chica decided take the Internet by the storm and build a business based upon that she wanted to live (rather than her life around her business.)

PS: you might want to plug your headphones in, because this one is definitely a little uncensored 😉




Ash Ambirge, brand language expert, trained linguist & former Director of PR for AWeber, is the CEO & founder of House of Moxie, Inc. Creative and The Middle Finger Project blog, where we discuss ways to start creative businesses, break through the mold, stand out in a sea of sameness, sell our ideas (because paupers aren’t cute), handle clients gracefully, ask for the kind of money you really want, write things people really want to read, reclaim our lives from things like the inbox, and learn how to take your idea, your concept, your project, your business, your baby—and turn it into a lucrative (as hell) career crazytown you never thought possible.



Sara:    Alright everyone, welcome to this episode of Fearless Founders. I couldn’t be more excited to have our next guest Ash Ambirge, who is the CEO of the House of Moxie, Inc. as well as The Middle Finger Project and we’ll get into what’s that all about. What is up, sister?

Ash:    I swear I’m a nice girl.

Sara:    Ok, so what is The Middle Finger Project?

Ash:    The Middle Finger Project is the place online to be for anyone who wants to explore a freelance career, something on their own path. They’re writing a book, they’re starting the project and everyone else know where their life is going. You should really be grateful for the job you have or really, like… is that what you do all day? Those kind of things. We’re community of rebels and freelancers online, who are working to make great money and good impact.

Sara:    Love that! Wow! That is a bit less aggressive than your website description, I believe.

Ash:    [laughing] This is only the first three minutes.

Sara:    Okay, we’re going to get into it. You guys, I have wanting to meet Ash for so long. I fell in love with her years and years ago. I have been watching her ridiculous trajectory as a female entrepreneur as well as the impact she created for so many entrepreneurs. I love it, so… Okay, so how did you get started? What’s your story? 

Ash:    Yes, you know Sara, I think we all have that crazy ass story that happened. Nobody really plans for success, although I think you should plan for success. In the beginning I started off, because I was just frustrated. I’m like : ” I don’t understand how people can do this for next 40 years of their lives. Sit, stare at the same wall. You know, kindly accept their paycheck. That whole thing “. This was way before I found the internet or the online community and I actually just found some diaries the other day that has my actual thoughts written down in the early 2000s being like: “Oh my God, how the people do this?”

Sara:   There has to be another way. Yea, right.

Ash:   How do people survive like this? So, I started looking for options. I started my copywriting business in 2006 and I was balls to the wall with it. I had enough experience in marketing and sales and also coincidentally copywriting that I thought: “You know. If these guys can do it, I can do it and get 100% of the profit”.

Sara:    Right.

Ash:    So, that I started doing it. My first business was disaster. I hated my clients.

Sara:    Who were your clients and how did you charge for it? What was your business model at the time or you just started selling things

Ash:   Well, at the time, I had been doing a lot of outside sales, B2B sales in the Philadelphian market, for big pharmaceutical companies, medical device companies, tech companies in the area, so I had some really great contacts in those arenas and I thought: ” Well, why I don’t persuade them?” So, I did and, you know, sent out some e-mails and say: ” Hey, this is what I want to do!”, and a lot of people were very supportive and I got some amazing gigs as a result. However, as I was doing the work, I realized that this wasn’t what I wanted to be doing over time. It was kind of stuff that’s like: “Okay, here: learn this 50 page brief on this very technical instrument that we’re going to be putting in people’s ankles and then…

Sara:    [laughing]

Ash:    [laughing] Obviously that! And, you know. I see the value, but that was not what I really envisioned for my company. I was a creative person at heart and that’s what I wanted to bring to the table with my copywritings.

Sara:    Was this on the side as you were doing your job or did you just say: “Screw it, I am quitting everything and I am going for it”

Ash:    Yea, I screwed it, I quit everything and I went for it, because I was that confident and I did okay, but at the end of the day I found myself in a position where I hated it so much that I was procrastinating the work. I didn’t want to take more clients

Sara:    Yeah.

Ash:    I found myself as I was hiding in my apartment. Like, I don’t know where I am or what I’m doing.

Sara:    I love this.

Ash:    Yeah, and now what, I mean : “Did I make a mistake. I don’t really know”. You know, this seems great, I am so so impressed of myself. Wow! I made a $1000 on this gig or that gig. But at the same time it’s really not any better than where I was, so I had a lot of questions. I ultimately ended going back to corporate America for a stint doing average sales, because I wasn’t convinced that that was the thing for me and in fact, it got so bad that at one point I had to borrow money to pay my rent, because I was so in this state. I can’t even stand to think about one more medical device.

Sara:    There you go.

Ash:    Yeah, that’s how I got my start.

Sara:    Well, It’s so interesting, because I came from ad agency, and I was like : “Oh, I love marketing and I can market anything. Until you market industries like renewable energy or the things that just didn’t give me excited and you kind of lose interest. Right?

Ash:    Exactly. Yeah, I would say that’s parallel.

Sara:    Okay, so then you went to corporate America. Did you—Where you then like trying to figure out what it is that you truly wanted to create.

Ash:    Yeah. You know, the thing is I am really good at sales and I love sales. It’s like a sport for me. I love sales, I love marketing—

Sara :   Wait, sales matters? Marketing matters?

Ash:    [laughing]

Sara:    I am joking. I am joking.

Ash:    Yeah, I mean, that’s the thing. Like there’s so many people that have amazing ideas and talents, but they’re not into the sales when the marketing aspect. And this is what I really was super obsessed with. I’m just—I find it amazing that we can all connect one to another. Especially, the Internet these days. And in the past you had no options. You had to basically send out flyers to people’s mailboxes. And they were just going to throw it out and chuck in their garbage immediately. Or, you know— You had some kind of mail order deal and then the Internet came along and everyone was like, “Wow! Cool! We can see people’s Cadillacs online”. But they haven’t really caught up to speed to realize that this also means they can become their own business, much more easily than they used to be able to. So, it’s amazing the transition there and I feel like—In the beginning I was just so happy to be doing the sales. I really loved it, but at same time I found myself back in the same trap. Okay great! So, I am getting every single contract sign. I am really good at my job. I am getting recognized at national level and that’s really fine. Magazines are cool. But, I’m working for, like, $30 commission on every $500 sale I was getting. And it seemed like, “Why am I doing all this work to make somebody else a lot of money”. And, why am I not doing this for myself”. So—again same position.

Sara:    Perfect. So, where—So, what happened then?

Ash:    That’s exactly when I was like, “Okay”. I remember going to the office and I was like, “John, I think you’re the best and I love this company.” And he knew what was coming. And he’s like, “No! Don’t even say it. You’re not leaving! [laughing]. And I was like, “John, there’s just so much more out there for me. I want to explore, I want to play, I want to use my skills and other ways. I can’t be trapped here. And I’m so grateful, but this isn’t the end.” And that was it. And he was like, “No, let’s work something out, let’s get away, so you at least go part-time”, and all sorts of things. And I said : “John, you know, I’m just ready to make a go out of it. So, I started blogging on the Middle Finger Project—

Sara:    Okay.

Ash:    —Which was also consolidating a lot of my ideas and it was kind of like, “You know, this isn’t right, what can we do, what are other people thinking, are there other people feeling the same out here that I am—

Sara:    Talk to me about the Middle Finger Project as a brand that you created. I think that is so brilliant. It’s like screw businesses as usual. And I don’t know if you had that back then, but it was kind of like, “Screw the status quo, live life on your own terms and I remember when it came about. It was like, “You got this cult following right after things totally took of—Your writing style is unbelievable—

Ash:    Thank you!

Sara:    Yeah. So, what was—what went into the creation of that. What was it just a way to express yourself to connect with others or why did you create it ?

Ash:    I created The Middle Finger Project, because I was so sick of same advice  over and over again. And everyone—no one actually seem to understand. I mean, all of my friends that I had been friends with for years were very much on the marriage, baby, track or the young professional track. And neither of those felt like a fit for my life. So, I started The Middle Finger Project even though I never give the finger in real life [laughing]. This feels very—

Sara:    [laughing]. I’ll drink to that. I’m joking. You guys for drinking wine, because we’re having a good evening. Cheers! Okay. So, talk to me than. So, what was it like when you were—So, you already done the copywriting thing and I can totally relate. I have imagined that a lot of the women watching can 100% relate and having a lot of people in proximity circle, circle of friends that aren’t doing big things and what they’re doing is equally great, but it’s just you want more. And what was that like as you started to step out, I guess into—You know, be more visible with this message.

Ash:    To this day. Ot’s pretty strange, because I feel like there’s a really big disconnect between people that have this certain motivation for something else who were inspired to create, who want to make something in this world versus people that just don’t—They have other goals and there’s always this divide, so it’s been strange as I navigate this over the years between my real-life friends and people that I feel that get me more, who are now online; colleges and even clients, so The Middle Finger Project really evolved as a way—I put myself up there and I didn’t even realize in the beginning that people are going to be reading what I was writing. Honestly, I just—And that gave me the permission to write what I wanted to write, which was amazing. I wasn’t censoring myself, monitoring myself. I was just like, “F*ck this, this is not okay!”

Sara:    I love it!

Ash:    I think it actually caught on.

Sara:    Right, because a lot of people that were feeling like they had to hide, who they are and what they wanted were like, “Ok, finally somebody is speaking to me about that”. So, did you—So, you said you tracked a lot of people and what was that like and building a community to support you and be like, “Oh, man, I’m not alone in what my desires are”. When did you start to move a little bit away from those friend or did you keep them or—What was that transition like, I guess ?

Ash:    You know, I think that I still—Over time, one of my biggest goals was, “Hey, I don’t want to be stuck in office, because there’s so much more that life has to offer. There’s so many things in this world that—I would be a fool to sit in one little corner of it and sit here and stare at the wall looking at. It just doesn’t feel right. I need to build a business around my life and not really my life around business”. So, with that in mind I’ve travelled a lot and I’ve had a great fortune to meet friends and people all over the world and I think that over time those people have actually become more connected to me in many different, more meaning ways than people I was just friends by default, because they are in the same—You know, 15 mile radius

Sara:    Yeah.

Ash:    So, that’s also true. You know, of course you keep some of your friendships, but I think that it’s important to became —To stay flexible and your mindset anyway. It’s difficult and I’ve had a lot of guilt over that over the years—

Sara:    Yeah.

Ash:    —But, you’re growing and growing as a person and as a professional. You need people to support you and sometimes the people that are going to be there to support are not the ones you would expect.

Sara:    So, were you motivated mostly by lifestyle or because you just loved what you—What your passion of this business or what was it that drove you, motivate you to make that shift and then I want to get into what that business was and how that evolved into House of Moxie and all this products and—You know, your massive profitability

Ash:    Yeah, you know, I think the why was probably the driving factor—

Sara:    Yeah. Which it was?

Ash:    —Which was hacking life in a way. You know, I recognize that the internet is this tool and it doesn’t seem prudent any more to sit and only limit yourself to having customers and your town or your area or be able to talk to those people. The internet supported us way more than just being able to connect through Facebook. It afforded us an opportunity that most of people are not taking advantage of yet. So, in the beginning it started as something that was lifestyle driven, but with intention. You know, I talked to myself, “Okay, well, what do I actually help people with? What I’m actually motivated by and can I bring to the table? What people would pay me for to do, because this is really something that is important to me, but should also be important to them. So, you know, it’s a game and it takes time. It’s not something that’s like, “Oh, yeah, this, mmmm, match me in heaven”. It takes time, it takes tweaking. We’ve gone through so many iterations of TMF Project, of House of Moxie and everything we’ve done and over the years to be able to help people on a way that makes sense giving the current year or what people are going through. And it’s always a working progress. There’s never any done. Never.

Sara:    That is so amazing. You actually listened off—I saw this chart once and I was like, “It’s the inner section of what you’re good at, what the world needs, what the world will pay you for and what you love doing. And in fact, inner faction is bliss. That’s your zone of genius and that’s where you’re wildly successful, profitable and blissfully happy. And I love that you’ve touched on that, but it’s an evolution, right?

Sara: So, at this point where you’re still in Philadelphia. I know you moved to Latin America some point. So, talk to me about evolution of your business. So, you had The Middle Finger Project where you’re doing freelance copywriting on the side and then- How—Like, where do you go from there?

Ash:    Yeah, here is where it gets really ugly, but very useful. I had, as I mentioned, put my company aside and gone back to advertising sales, at which point I quit my job and decided that I was going to start freelancing again, but work my way into more intention with my clients and the types of jobs that I was seeking on. I love copywriting and I’ve always liked writing. I have ridiculous diary entries of myself. Writing— Letters of the alphabet before I even knew what the letters of the alphabet were. So, I am just trying to imitate the swiggles that I saw and I always loved that. And then I discovered marketing and sales and again, how much of a really amazing sport that can be when you look at it from the perspective of, “I have something amazing that I want to offer the world and there are people that are dying for that to be out there, but it’s a matter of finding the way to the bridge the gap”. We look at it from that perspective sales and marketing. It’s just amazing sport. So, why I look at both of those, I thought, “Jeez, the marriage of these is copywriting and that’s how I got started. So—When I was deliberately trying to think about the types of clients I wanted to take on. I was slowly moving forward. I did some work for AWeber. At that point in time, I was trajectory PR and I was taking on clients behind the scenes. Kind of just dabbling here and there. But, my dabbling ended up costing me a lot of money, because he doesn’t realize how much money it costs deliver rebounds. Right? You’ve got rent, you’ve got cars, car insurance, life in USA is very expensive and—-I always had the chip on my like I was just going to figure it out. It didn’t matter, I’ll just figure it out. And came the time when I wasn’t figuring it out. I had a couple of stupid financial moves that I made.

Sara:    [laughing

Ash:    In that moment I had a moment of despair. I mean, I written about this online, but I was very much—Literally in my car in the damn Kmart. I’ve never been to Kmart in my life, except now

Sara:    [laughing]

Ash:    I should probably send them a donation or something. [laughing] I was in a Kmart with a few dollars to my name and no more credit and—Shit, no where else to go.I mean, I was in Philadelphia, in South Philly and just being like, “Oh, shit”. So, I sold my car. Literally, within 48 hours and I hopped a plane to South America, where I had been before when I was still doing my graduate work and I was there on a UN’s scholarship and different things like that. I had friends, and I knew how cheap the cost of living was and there to start over and go there and concentrate on what I really wanted.

Sara:    Was it gut instinct that you had just to screw it and go?

Ash:    Yeah, I mean there were a number of factors that contributed to that. You know, unhealthy choices that I knew I couldn’t be making in Philadelphia, my ability to succeed. I’m talking about drugs or anything, but you know, relationships and men, things that are distractions that shouldn’t have been there and things that I didn’t want in my life. And I knew that in order for me to strong enough to make this work, I needed to be outside of that contact. So I left.

Sara:    Okay.

Ash:    That’s when I started really focusing on building the new version of my company House of Moxie. I’m using The Middle Finger Project as a marketing tool, because I had already collected such a big audience of people that were already on board. Yes, this is what—”

Sara:    I believe in your vision, I believe in your why

Ash:    We’re trying to do the same thing. You don’t know how to get there as well as you though, because we’ve never got a client before. We’ve never negotiated terms, we’ve never had to tell somebody that we want a fire them. Like different things like that that I already had experience in world, so I thought, “This feels right, this is good and I started working both angles”.

Sara:    Do you think that, like—Okay, so, when you moved to Latin America, did you go to Costa Rica. Is that how you went or?

Ash:    This time I went to Chile

Sara:    Okay, that’s right. Okay. So, but as you kind of aligned your life like it was easier for you to align your business to who you were and like what you wanted to create.

Ash:    Yeah. You know, people that don’t have anything to lose, don’t have anything to lose

Sara:    Oh, I’ve been there.

Ash:    I love that position in so many ways, because it seems so defeating, but there are so many advantages. Like, you really don’t want to piss of somebody who doesn’t have anything to lose. [laughing]

Sara:    Right. There’s no fear cause it’s like, ” I can’t—It doesn’t matter”. [laughing]

Ash:    Yeah. And it was great advantage for me, because so many other people, you know, in online space or in entrepreneurial space and small business space, whatever, were still putting on their professional face.—

Sara:    Yeah.

Ash:    —They were still really cautious about what they are saying and they were so operating like they are working for a big corporation. Which anyone would do and, you know, it’s human nature, but at the same time I had nothing to lose and I have a really strong opinion done some things. And I felt okay with those things.

Sara:    Well, in one of the things I respect so much about you, and I turned up to you a bit, is that people have always been so vulnerable about where you’re at, what you’ve gone through. Like the entire journey and process. You know, I had this fear—I was the same way, right, when we started our blogs back in the day. I had this fear of vulnerability. I couldn’t share anything and a—I was working at the corporate job, but it’s like, you know—I just admired that so much about you and I think that’s why—Part of why you’ve been so successful. So, House of Moxie. You’re like, “I need a sexy, another sexy entity to do”—You want to do bigger things. You could have done freelance copywriting forever, just you on your own. Was it because you wanted to, like, expand scale or what was the reason behind that and let’s get into what House of Moxie is.

Ash:    Yeah. You know—I think—House of Moxie is the creative agency I built for copywriting and most of because we lost a really key deal for sponsorship of Dunkin’ Donuts a few years back, because of the name The Middle Finger Project. So, it made me actually realize, “Okay, you know, I need to form a company that’s not The Middle Finger Project”. And that’s all started but ultimately, at the end of the day, it’s about taking myself as seriously as I want the world to take me. And sometimes that’s hard when you have such an irreverent name like TMF Project. And I think that community there is great, but if I really want to be feature in Forbes or Huffington Post sometimes you need to also talk the talk and walk the walk. So, we formed House of Moxie for that reason. The reason why I’ve grown since with at it on staff members and different people is because I understand how business is run and businesses can’t run just with one person. It’s just impossible from a sanity standpoint.

Sara: I hear you on that. Okay, so, the creator of House of Moxie, you’re doing badass copywriting for clients and—And then I know you transitioned into a—What was it? Brandgasm or a lot of, like, digital products that you created, because you saw the market need for those and like, how do you scale what it is that you offer and what’s going on in your head? Right. So, talk to me about that process was like and what you’ve created.

Ash:    Yeah. I mean, I love working with people, but I also realize the limitations. There’s huge limitations involved in working one-on-one with everybody in the whole wide world. And gosh—

Sara:    You can only make as much money as you hours have in a day.

Ash:    Yeah. I’m very fortunate to say that there are many people that want to work together. And that’s so cool, but I—You know, I should point where I couldn’t accommodate that. And nor could anyone. If they’re doing good-enough job with their marketing. So, you know, you have two choices you can really just start turning clients away or you can start charging more money. But at the same time, there’s eventually going to be a ceiling on the amount of money that you can charge, as well. And it might not feel like the best internal decision, either. So, the question becomes, “How do I grow without spreading myself too thin”? And this is something that everyone deals with.

Sara:    That is so essential. You created, sort of, digital courses that provided exercises or training or particular areas such as branding, copywriting for Brandgasm, right? And then found business bodyguard was all kind of legal or what not? And—You know, it’s interesting about you is I feel like, “Not only is that audience, it’s you”. Right? So you kind of understood the pain point, but you probably had your finger on the pulse in terms of what they were asking for, so you actually knew before you created something that it was actually legitimately solving the problem. Right?

Ash:    Yeah. I mean, I did have that very big event of having the audience and hearing your discussions over and over again. But I think that’s really important to listen what people are talking about. I mean, sometimes I see these random products or things that grow up on the market that are just so far-fashion. I think, you know, it’s nice to have idea, but it’s not something I am jumping to pay for and it’s not something that I even feel as relevant or time sensitive or pressing or over the case maybe. So I’ve had that advantage and I think listening people talk is probably the best marketing research you can do. Just listen.

Sara:    Right. Totally. And I feel like it’s not in the top three pain points. It’s really difficult to get people to purchase anything. It doesn’t matter how cheap or expensive it is. Right? So, I love that. Okay. So, from what I understand there is wildly successful and you’re still running other business. Right? So, can you give us a number of how profitable you’ve been, like at all. You just—Or no, you don’t have to.

Ash:    Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we started off—I had mentioned prior, but in 90—1997, jeez, I’m dazed.

Sara:    [laughing]

Ash:    In 2011, I start to prove that anybody who was running a service space business could at least make a $100,000, even given the limitation.

Sara:    Yeah.

Ash:    I started a public experiment. It was close to $100,000. And we were successfully close up big experiment at $103,000 and I had people calling me every single week for 52 weeks of the year. You know—Everything that I did, my thought processes, what was going on and so—That year, 2011, was a 103,000 and I did that on purpose, from there we’ve grown rapidly and we did almost a $500,000 last year and this year run trying to track a $1,000,000. Which is also—Because I’m like—I grew up making less than $10,000 a year. That was our family income. I had mother on social security disability. I can’t even believe this.

Sara:    That is unbelievable. I want to commend you for that and—Like you’ve been taking risks, right? And it’s because you’ve been breaking the wall. And it’s not like there was a blueprint that you’ve googled that was like, “Okay, here’s how I built my business”. Right?

Ash:    Never. Never, and I think that so much of it has to do with just identifying the things you hate about what ever industry is and going for it. Standing for something. Standing up and saying, “I hate this, this is what me and my companies stand for. If you’re with us, let’s go. This is how we are and we want to attract people that way. And there’s so many people, and you know—Even making decisions is a lot where it’s like, “Well, I’m not gonna invest in the time to think about the name”, for example. Or my website, because I really just want to test it out first and see if it sticks and then if it sticks, then I’ll consider those things. But what they don’t realize is that it’s the opposite. The reason why it might not be sticking is because you haven’t put that initial effort to it. You have to just believe the shit out of it. Like, “Let’s do this”. You have to be 100% into it. If you’re not, just stop right now. Like, “Get into 100% into it and see what happens. Let yourself be vulnerable”.

Sara:    I think when you talked about the why and we had to wrap up here, but like—Do you think that if you’re grounded and you truly believe it’s possible that, like, when obstacles come or challenges or anything that it’s so much easier that giving up and going for it versus [laughing]

Ash:     Yeah, no! [laughing]

Sara:    But like, seriously. If you don’t give a shit. That’s was like my last business and I was like, “Uhh, I could go after that client, but I don’t really care”, or like, “Just screw it. I am just going to give up. I am just going to take a bath and go watch Netflix and, you know—”

Ash:    [laughing]

Sara:    —Sabbatical, like I don’t even go travel. I just watch Friday Night Lights on Netflix. [laughing] You know what I mean, though? But like, even with how few things happen I want to make things happen. What are your thoughts on that

Ash:    I really think you have to—You just have to have the why and I mean— The rest will fall in the place. It will and it’s never going to be first iteration. You’re going to have to go tweaking and changing and plan and maybe completely into another direction. And that’s fine. This is all the fun of the game. It’s a game. That’s all this is. It’s a game to see. How well you can take your talents and strengths and actually bring them to market. It’s an amazing game, because it validates you and everything you’re doing. You get paid to grave money. You can connect to people, you have a great time. It’s not just sitting there f*cking faxing a paper, for Christ sake. The point—

Sara:    I saw a quote, today actually, that was like, “Life is a beautiful experiment and threating any idea or thing that you have, like from a curiosity standpoint, to see if it works, testing and integrating that out. And I thought it was—Instead of like, “Oh my God, my life is over if this doesn’t work out and that’s why you give up and I think—I love what you’re talking about.

Ash:    Yes. You can always forget what ever you were doing before. It doesn’t matter. The world doesn’t care as much as you think about you. So just put yourself out there and see what happens. If you suck, who cares. Nobody would even notice. I guarantee you.

Sara: [laughing] You’re pretty much my idol. I love you and I adore you and I know everyone else is going to feel the same way. Thank you so much for being out here. Where can anyone find more about you?

Ash:     If you forget the Middle Finger Project by now, you’re doomed. Let’s—-

Sara:    What’s your .org for a while, by the way?

Ash:    It is still .org. Sara: It’s a non-profit. [laughing]

Sara:    You finally, like, muster up the money to buy the premium domain. [laughing] I’m just giving you shit. It’s amazing. Okay. So, The Middle Finger Project and that’s your Twitter account?

Ash:    TMF Project. You can’t me miss me. You google any of those things. Even if it’s just Finger Project, you’ll find me.

Sara:    You optimized the right word. You’re amazing. love and adore you.

Ash:    Thank you, Sara! Sara: Yeah. This is been great. You guys—We should have connect with Ash. I’m sure we will collaborate and do a lot of things together in future

Ash:    Woohoo! Hello, fearless!

Sara:    Say hello to fearless. Okay. We will talk to you soon. All right, bye.